Hopkins describes a 1948 case in Cincinnati where two children were found paralyzed at the base of a cellar stairway three stories below their bedroom without a mark on them, with no witnesses observing a fall or craft. He also recounts a woman at Chicago's O'Hare Airport whose hands failed to trigger sensor faucets and who appeared to materialize before startled friends after more than an hour of missing time.
The discussion turns to the reproductive focus Hopkins considers central to the phenomenon, including the collection of genetic material for what he terms transgenic experimentation. He notes that alien medical procedures reported by abductees years ago, such as inserting a needle through the navel, only made sense once human science developed laparoscopy. Art and Hopkins examine how earthly invisibility research is narrowing the technological gap with alien capabilities.
Key Moments
Carl Sagan's hidden trajectory on UFOs: Hopkins describes his complex personal dealings with the late Carl Sagan, recalling that Sagan first made his national reputation on Johnny Carson arguing that ancient artifacts and cave drawings showed mankind had been visited in the past, then progressively stiffened his public resistance to the UFO phenomenon despite remaining a believer in extraterrestrial intelligence.
Transgenic beings and the takeover scenario: Hopkins says he prefers the term 'transgenic' to 'hybrid' for what the abduction program is producing - genetically spliced beings, not mule-style cross-species offspring - and tells Art he leans toward the pessimistic side: there is no sign the UFO occupants are here to help us, and one possible end-state is that humanity is taken over by these transgenic beings.
Sight Unseen: a technology of invisibility: Hopkins reveals the central thesis of his new book Sight Unseen: many abductions occur in plain sight - in midtown New York, Paris, London, Istanbul - yet no one observes the UFO, the aliens, or the abductees because the entire event is rendered invisible. He argues earthly invisibility research is now beginning to approach what abductees have long described.
1948 case: children float from a third-story window: Hopkins recounts a 1948 case of a mother whose two small children were found at the bottom of a basement stairwell with no marks despite a fall from three stories that should have killed them. Under hypnosis the mother recalled being floated out the window with the children into a craft, then deposited at the steps; both children were paralyzed and unable to speak for up to an hour.
Navel-needle fetal extractions echoed in abductee reports: Hopkins notes that a basic medical procedure for testing fetal viability inserts a long needle through the navel to recover amniotic fluid without leaving a mark, and that many abductees - including Linda Cortile in Witnessed - report the same navel-needle procedure during their experiences.