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Journey into the unknown

Episode 0919 · Feb 12, 2002 · 2h 10m

February 12, 2002: The Phoenix Project, Shifting from Oil to Hydrogen - Harry Braun

Key Moments

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  1. Transcript

    45 kilowatts to a gallonBraun gives the headline number: about 45 kilowatt hours of electricity and 2.3 gallons of water produce the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline as hydrogen.

  2. Transcript

    Yes, it takes more energy than it givesArt pins Braun with a yes/no question: does hydrogen take more energy to produce than you get back? Braun answers yes - and adds that every other energy source on Earth has the same property.

  3. Transcript

    Triple US electrical output - with windBraun says the switch to hydrogen would require tripling US electrical output, but argues 10 million one-megawatt wind machines could deliver all 95 quads the country uses, with the intermittency problem solved by making hydrogen whenever the wind blows.

  4. Transcript

    Cars run on hydrogen, exhaust is waterBraun walks through what changes when you swap a gasoline carburetor for a gaseous-fuel one and answers Art's horsepower question: BMW's 25-year hydrogen program rates a liquid-hydrogen car as one second faster zero-to-go than the same car on gasoline.

  5. Transcript

    Five-year Phoenix ProjectAsked how fast the switch could happen, Braun pitches a Manhattan-style mobilization: hydrogen economy in five years, every car/aircraft/train/ship converted, ten million Americans put to work, with the oil companies leading the charge as hydrogen suppliers.

Art Bell interviews energy analyst Harry Braun, author of "The Phoenix Project: Shifting from Oil to Hydrogen," about his plan to transition the entire U.S. energy and transportation infrastructure to hydrogen fuel within five years. Braun explains that 45 kilowatt-hours of electricity and 2.3 gallons of water can produce the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline, with zero carbon emissions and only water vapor as exhaust.

Braun proposes building 10 million one-megawatt wind turbines to triple the nation's electrical output, arguing the internal components of wind machines are no more complex than automobile engines and could be mass-produced at the same rate. He addresses the Hindenburg myth, noting that two-thirds of passengers survived and that NASA investigators determined the aluminum-powdered skin, not hydrogen, caused the fire. BMW's fifth-generation hydrogen cars, he reports, perform identically to gasoline vehicles with one second faster acceleration.

The conversation also ventures into exponential growth in molecular biology, with Braun predicting that within 10 to 20 years, genetic engineering will allow humans to regenerate tissue and become biologically 18 again. Art presses him on the practical challenges, including the five-trillion-dollar price tag and the political will required to redirect a billion dollars per week currently spent on Middle Eastern oil.

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