Lazar returns to discuss his experiences at S4 near Area 51, where he observed nine extraterrestrial craft and worked directly with one described as the sport model. He details the gravity propulsion system that operates by distorting space in front of the craft, creating a condition where it perpetually falls toward a self-generated gravitational point. Lazar explains two flight modes, omicron for local atmospheric travel and delta for interstellar transit, where the craft tilts belly-forward and all three gravity amplifiers focus on a single distant point.
Art presses Lazar on disclosure, weapons applications of gravity manipulation technology, and the government's ability to maintain secrecy. Lazar reveals he and partner John Farad own a decommissioned nuclear missile silo near Roswell for undisclosed projects, and that local police once investigated claims he was holding alien hostages underground. He discusses his move to New Mexico to re-enter serious scientific work near Los Alamos and Sandia National Labs.
Key Moments
Nine saucers at S4, one being test-flown: Lazar tells Art there were nine craft total at Area S4, mostly seen at a distance, and the only one he had direct contact with was the disc being test-flown - the now-iconic 'sport model' he watched lift, hover, and move.
Element 115 and the bowling-ball-on-a-bed analogy: Asked how the saucer's propulsion worked, Lazar names element 115 as the fuel and gives his signature analogy: a bowling ball on a bed warps the surface, so pressing your fist into the bed three feet away makes the ball roll toward you - that is gravity propulsion.
Lazar's advice to other insiders: 'Just forget it': Art asks Lazar to encourage other Area 51 / S4 insiders to come forward. Lazar refuses - tells them to forget it, don't bother saying anything, it's not worth the hassle and nobody will believe them anyway.
'I'm not a crusader' - Lazar disowns the UFO scene: Pressed on why he won't push for disclosure, Lazar says flatly he is not a crusader, not involved in UFO research, doesn't follow the stories or do lectures, and is trying to put the experience behind him.
We failed to duplicate the gravity drive - and the craft never left the atmosphere: Art notes we still launch on Saturn V-style 'fireworks' even though Lazar saw working gravity tech in the early 90s. Lazar agrees we failed to duplicate it, says the craft is too valuable to risk in space, and asserts 'I know for a fact' it was never taken outside Earth's atmosphere.