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From the High Desert book cover

From the High Desert

A Cultural History of Art Bell

Thumbnail for August 18, 2015: Exorcism - Father Jack Ashcraft

August 18, 2015: Exorcism - Father Jack Ashcraft

Aug 18, 2015
2h 16m
0:00 / 0:00
Father Jack Ashcraft, a traditional Byzantine Catholic priest called the Malachi Martin of the 21st century, joins Art Bell for a conversation on exorcism, Vatican corruption, and the paranormal's intersection with Christian theology. Ashcraft reveals that Martin himself worked for Cardinal Bea in the 1960s, participating in subversive forces at Vatican II before switching allegiances, and suggests Martin's fatal fall was suspicious given he had been preparing to expose a bishop.

The broadcast centers on demonic possession. Ashcraft distinguishes levels from temptation through oppression to "perfect possession," where the host has voluntarily surrendered control for money, fame, or power. He describes his most frightening case: a Kentucky woman whose home featured levitating objects and words appearing on walls, witnessed by a psychiatrist and by Ashcraft himself. Art Bell connects the discussion to his recent Blanche Barton interview, noting it seemed pleasant until he re-listened and recognized what Ashcraft confirms: Satan comes as an angel of light. Ashcraft breaks down LaVeyan Satanism as self-worship dressed in ritual psychodrama versus practitioners who recognize a literal entity, calling them flip sides of the same coin.

A priest willing to address the subjects that made Malachi Martin both celebrated and feared.

Key Moments

  1. Sedevacantist position and the post-John XXIII Vatican: Father Ashcraft explains sedevacantism, claiming every pope from John XXIII onward is an antipope, and cites documents alleging John XXIII was a Rosicrucian and possible Freemason, with Soviet sympathizers and occultists infiltrating the Vatican.

  2. Perfect possession requires a voluntary deal: Ashcraft distinguishes everyday demonic activity from perfect possession, which he says only occurs when a person voluntarily trades themselves to a demonic entity for money, fame, or lust, and from which there is no return.

  3. Hooks: drugs, alcohol, and the path from temptation to oppression: Ashcraft maps the staircase of demonic influence from diabolic temptation through obsession to oppression (modeled on Job) and finally transient or perfect possession, framing addictions as the entry-level hooks.

  4. Multiple voices speaking at once during exorcism: Asked whether real exorcisms resemble the movies, Ashcraft says no spinning heads or pea soup, but he has personally heard two or three distinct voices emerge from one possessed person simultaneously and witnessed objects move.

  5. Exorcism is a joint effort with the possessed: Ashcraft argues that no priest can free a person who will not amend their life, get into a state of grace, and reverse the spiritual surrender, even comparing the cultural moment to Weimar Germany's desperation.