The discussion turns to exorcism after the 60 Minutes story about psychiatrist Dr. Kenneth Olson performing an unauthorized exorcism on a patient with 126 alleged personalities. Father Martin describes the rigorous process of distinguishing genuine possession from mental illness, noting he rejects seven out of ten cases. He warns that anyone attempting exorcism without proper authority risks becoming possessed, and shares that some exorcists have died or emerged as broken shells of their former selves.
Art raises his unsettling interview with a self-described Satanist named Harlot, who claimed she took steps to ensure her murdered young daughter would join her in hell. Father Martin confirms such a thing is possible, leading to a chilling exchange about the nature of evil, perfect possession, and the spiritual war he believes is intensifying across the world.
Key Moments
Sistine Chapel zodiac globe and Vatican astrologers: Bell describes the giant globe inside the Sistine Chapel emblazoned with the 12 zodiac signs, and Martin confirms popes for centuries (roughly 1200 to mid-1600s) kept a noted Catholic astrologer who advised on affairs of state by reading planetary conjunctions as expressions of God's will.
60 Minutes, Dr. Olson, and the danger of an untrained exorcist: Martin reacts to the 60 Minutes story on Wisconsin psychiatrist Dr. Kenneth Olson, who allegedly induced 126 personalities in a patient and then performed an exorcism using the formula in the back of Hostage to the Devil; Martin says his first reaction is fear for Olson's safety because exorcism without authority is a battle with a fallen archangel that the human will lose.
How Martin screens exorcism candidates and gets outwitted: Martin says he rejects exorcism in seven of ten cases after first ruling out brain tumors, transgenerational insanity, alcoholism, drug addiction, Tourette's, schizophrenia, and induced MPD; once formal exorcism begins, within 10 to 20 minutes you know whether you're dealing with the real thing - and even faith alone isn't enough, because the demon's intellect can outwit the exorcist.
Bell asks Martin if his own success could be a Faustian bargain: Bell tells Martin that since hearing him describe the perfectly possessed, he has worried whether his career skyrocket might be the product of an unconscious pact; Martin answers no - perfect possession is always a fully conscious, gradual surrender, never something slid past you, but he concedes evil does prick consciences through pride, vanity, and ambition.