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From the High Desert book cover

From the High Desert

A Cultural History of Art Bell

Thumbnail for August 22, 1997: Theoretical Physics - Dr. Michio Kaku

August 22, 1997: Theoretical Physics - Dr. Michio Kaku

Aug 22, 1997
2h 35m
0:00 / 0:00
Art Bell welcomes theoretical physicist Dr. Michio Kaku for a wide-ranging conversation about ten-dimensional hyperspace, time travel, and the classification of civilizations in the universe. Dr. Kaku explains that humanity is a Type 0 civilization, still dependent on dead plants for energy, and describes how Type 1, 2, and 3 civilizations could harness planetary, stellar, and galactic power respectively.

The discussion covers how higher dimensions could explain phenomena commonly associated with the paranormal, from objects passing through walls to instantaneous teleportation. Dr. Kaku describes black holes not as collapsed points but as spinning rings that could function as gateways to other regions of spacetime, providing the scientific basis for wormholes and stargates depicted in popular films like Contact and Stargate.

Art and Dr. Kaku also examine the grandfather paradox of time travel, which quantum theory resolves through parallel universes that split like soap bubbles. They discuss self-replicating von Neumann probes as the logical method for advanced civilizations to explore the galaxy, the future of DNA manipulation, and whether humanity will survive its transition from Type 0 to Type 1.

Key Moments

  1. The fish-in-the-pond analogy for hyperspace: Kaku frames ten-dimensional hyperspace through his childhood memory of carp in a Japanese tea garden - beings that experience only forward-back-left-right and cannot conceive of 'up.' Lift one out, he says, and the laws of physics seem to break.

  2. Energy required to open a wormhole: Kaku gives Coast listeners the catch - opening a hole in space requires 10 to the 19 billion electron volts, a quadrillion times the canceled Texas supercollider. No basement inventor builds a time machine; only a Type 2 or Type 3 civilization could.

  3. Kardashev civilizations: Type 1, 2, and 3: Kaku walks through the energy ladder - a Type 1 civilization controls a planet, a Type 2 scoops chunks out of stars ('Junior puts a white dwarf in the gas tank'), a Type 3 harnesses an entire galaxy. Earth is Type 0.